And then it became silent...........

My dad is not allowed to say anything about his work, neither am i, neither are a lot of people. So he is not allowed to say anything at all, what doesn't imply that things are suspicious. It's just where he signed for. Only thing i can say is that we are the country with the best technique and checks. Not any other country is as far as we are en no other country has such a strict law on this subject. So if the food we consume is somewhere on this planet safe, then it's here in Holland. I do think you're concern is overrated about our own meat. America and other country's are a whole different story. Ow, yes, imported meat is being checked as well.

might be interesting to read some publications here:

http://www.rikilt.nl/Publications/Publications/Publicationscompleet.htm

euringen voor en na de slacht

In de Vleeskeuringswet is onder andere vastgelegd hoe dieren geslacht moeten worden en tot vlees of vleeswaren worden verwerkt. Elk slachtdier moet zowel voor als na de slacht worden geïnspecteerd. Een keuringsdierenarts bepaalt of een dier geslacht mag worden en onder welke voorwaarden dat gebeurt. Het vlees van afgekeurde dieren wordt vernietigd of verwerkt tot industriële grondstoffen.



De keuringen zijn een taak van officieel daarvoor aangewezen keuringsdierenartsen, ook wel bekend als ‘keurmeesters’, die zich kunnen laten bijstaan door keuringsassistenten. Zij zijn in dienst van de RVV. Voor de slacht letten zij op verschijnselen die duiden op een besmettelijke ziekte voor mens of dier of andere zaken waardoor het vlees ongeschikt zou kunnen zijn voor menselijke consumptie. In de Vleeskeuringswet staat een waslijst aan ziektes die de keuringsdierenarts moet herkennen en naar aanleiding waarvan het dier wordt afgekeurd. Daarvoor kijkt de keuringsdierenarts naar het uiterlijk van het dier en de vorm, grootte, tekening, kleur en andere kenmerken van de organen.



Na de slacht kijkt de keuringsdierenarts of het karkas er goed uitziet en of er geen afwijkingen zijn. Maar controle op het oog alleen is niet voldoende. Aan de organen kan bijvoorbeeld geen BSE worden afgelezen, ook niet als ze na de slacht worden opengesneden voor inspectie. Daarom neemt de keuringsdierenarts een monster van elke koe, dat in het laboratorium wordt getest op BSE. Zo zijn er meer analyses ontwikkeld ter aanvulling van de keuring op het oog

het etiket
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Andere wetten

De Destructiewet

De Destructiewet regelt het afvoeren en verwerken van dierlijk materiaal dat niet voor consumptie geschikt is, zoals dieren die op de boerderij zijn gestorven en slachtafval. Zulk dierlijk materiaal zou de volksgezondheid kunnen schaden of dierziektes kunnen verspreiden. Daarom moet het onschadelijk worden gemaakt of worden vernietigd. De Destructiewet is bijvoorbeeld cruciaal in de strijd tegen BSE.



Per 1 oktober 2001 is de verantwoordelijkheid voor het destructiebeleid van het Ministerie van Volksgezondheid, Welzijn en Sport verhuisd naar het Ministerie van Landbouw, Natuur en Voedselkwaliteit. De Rijksdienst voor de Keuring van Vee en Vlees (RVV) controleert op naleving van de Destructiewet in het slachthuis. De Keuringsdienst van Waren controleert de werkzaamheden van de RVV en ziet toe op naleving van de Destructiewet bij bijvoorbeeld het destructiebedrijf en het transport.

LRM, HRM en SRM

Al het destructiemateriaal moet gekoeld worden bewaard in gesloten, lekvrije, corrosiebestendige opslagbakken met etiket of opschrift 'laag-risicomateriaal'. Koeling is verplicht tenzij het wordt opgehaald op de dag van de slacht danwel de dood.



De verdere voorschriften hangen af van de risico’s die het afval met zich meebrengt. In de Destructiewet wordt het dierlijk afval opgesplitst in laag-risico-materiaal (LRM), hoog-risicomateriaal (HRM) en specifiek-risicomateriaal (SRM). LRM bestaat bijvoorbeeld uit vleesproducten waarvan de houdbaarheidsdatum is verstreken of waarvan de vleesstructuur afwijkt. HRM omvat dierlijk afval waarbij schadelijke gevolgen voor de mens niet uitgesloten zijn, zoals ongekeurd of bedorven vlees. SRM omvat die delen van koeien, schapen en geiten die een BSE-besmetting kunnen bevatten.



Al het dierlijk afval wordt opgehaald en verwerkt door een destructiebedrijf. LRM kan worden verwerkt in katten- en hondenvoer. HRM en SRM moeten apart worden opgeslagen voordat ze naar het destructiebedrijf gaan. SRM moet verplicht worden verbrand. Met HRM gebeurt dit in de praktijk tegenwoordig ook, tot voor kort werd er veevoer van gemaakt. De verbrandingskosten zijn voor rekening van degene die het aan moet bieden.

Thanks Soulreaver; it is a big releave for people who live in Holland to know at least ruminents of cows are not feed back but destructed. Other countries could take this as an example , can you find out about the insecticides as well???

I was afraid that CFJ Disease could be transferred by bloodtransfusions; here is the evidence; this is recent news (April 4th, 2004)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3599005.stm


New CJD blood donor ban in force

Dr Reid said the ban was to avoid the slight risk of vCJD transmission
Thousands of people in the UK will be banned from Monday from giving blood, amid fears over the human form of BSE.
The ban, announced in the Commons last month by Health Secretary John Reid, applies to all those who have had blood transfusions since January 1980.

Dr Reid revealed a man who died from vCJD may have contracted the human form of mad cow disease after a transfusion.

The move means more than 50,000 donors will be excluded from giving blood, prompting urgent calls for new donors.

Around 1.7 million people in the UK regularly donate blood.

The government announced in December that a patient had died of the disease after receiving blood years earlier from a donor who contracted vCJD.

Concern

The case was the first of its kind recorded in the world and prompted concern from doctors, MPs and the public.

Dr Reid insisted the ban was to avoid the "slight risk" of the transmission of vCJD as this was still a "possibility, not a proven causal connection".

Experts said although a coincidence could not be ruled out, the chances of both donor and recipient independently falling victim to the killer brain disease were remote.




Q&A: Blood donor ban

The government also revealed 15 other people were known to have received blood from donors who subsequently developed vCJD.

While Dr Reid's announcement did not apply to Scotland, Malcolm Chisholm, the Scottish health minister, has also agreed to introduce a ban.

The National Blood Service estimated the ban, which it supports, would mean the loss of 3.2% of all blood donors, and said it still needed to collect 9,000 donations every day.

Cutbacks

People have been urged to continue having blood transfusions when necessary.

But the Department of Health (DoH) has already ordered NHS hospitals to try to cut back on the amount of blood it uses.

The ban affects those who received transfusions after January 1980 because it is generally accepted that there would have been no exposure to BSE in the UK before that date, according to the government.

However, it will rely on the public declaring they have had transfusions as the NHS does not have the capacity to trace everyone who has undergone one since 1980.

A spokesman for the DoH said the situation would be reviewed if a blood test for vCJD was developed.

"At the moment you can't test for vCJD in blood but if scientists develop a test then that would obviously be reviewed and potential donors could be screened."

lees dit net op ergogenics. http://www.ergogenics.org/secretagogue.html#han

ORIGINAL: Raymond Han

I was afraid that CFJ Disease could be transferred by bloodtransfusions; here is the evidence; this is recent news (April 4th, 2004)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3599005.stm


New CJD blood donor ban in force
knip etc..

OMG... that is horrible news!! can it get even worse?

@ barman.. thanks for the link.. That is a big hurray for Raymond in this case.. I have seen enough EVIDENCE that it is possible to get vCJD in a variaty of ways. And if you see this movie of these kids that Mr.X posted you get an idea of how big the meat business is in the US.. big mass production. big mass money - big mass corruption

BUMP

Checks urged on US blood products
[image]local://upfiles/2748/7B7CA0BEA701492F89ED587A598A195F.jpg[/image]
One patient died after receiving blood from a vCJD infected donor

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3347583.stm

One patient died after receiving blood from a vCJD infected donor
The suspected discovery of the first case of "mad cow" disease in the US has prompted a call for safety checks on imported blood products in the NHS.
As part of efforts to halt the spread of vCJD, the human form of BSE, Britain has sourced all plasma for blood products from the US since 1999.

[image]local://upfiles/2748/5DFAF5795D5C425C8068D55D08F64484.jpg[/image]
The blood donor developed vCJD two years ago
Hundreds of haemophiliacs in Scotland and Northern Ireland have been told they may have been treated with blood products from a donor who developed variant Creutzfeld-Jacob Disease (vCJD).
It is understood that the person at the centre of the scare made two donations in 1986 and 1987 and developed vCJD two years ago.

Health agencies in Scotland have written to about 300 patients who may have been treated with plasma from the donations and offered them counselling.

There is no diagnostic test for the incurable brain disease vCJD which has, so far, killed 117 people in Britain.

The Conservatives are now calling on the Food Standards Agency to make checks to ensure blood remains safe.

There is no proof yet that vCJD can be transmitted through blood transfusions.

But the potential danger was highlighted last week when it emerged a patient in a British hospital had died from vCJD after receiving blood from an infected donor.
Tory health spokesman Andrew Lansley said Britain could not halt imports of US blood products as it would almost certainly be impossible to find sufficient supplies from a safer source.

But he is calling for action to reassure the public of the safety of the US supplies.

BOVINE SPONGIFORM ENCEPHALOPATHY
First surfaced mid-1980s
Can pass to humans through infected beef products
Human form of disease called vCJD
vCJD has killed 137 people, mainly in the UK


US searches for 'mad cow' clues

"There is an important issue that arises from this case, which is to try to maintain the integrity of the American food chain, so we can be sure that American blood products continue not to be at risk of contamination from BSE, leading to vCJD," Mr Lansley said.

"Therefore, the two things I am looking for when Parliament returns [on 5 January] are firstly, for us to hear from the FSA that they are working with the Food and Drug Administration in America to ensure inspection and controls in America are as good as anywhere, and secondly, to hear from the health secretary [John Reid] what additional questions he is asking to make sure American blood products are as safe as we can make them."

Several countries banned US beef imports hours after America announced its first suspected case of BSE.

The move was led by Japan, which bought $800m of US beef last year, and Canada later followed with a partial ban.

COUNTRIES THAT HAVE BANNED US BEEF
Canada - partial ban
Japan
South Korea
Singapore
Taiwan
Malaysia
Thailand
Hong Kong
Russia
Australia
South Africa
Brazil
Mexico
Ukraine
China

Mexico, Brazil, Russia, Ukraine, and a number of Asian counties from Singapore to South Korea were among those who followed Japan's example.

Early on Thursday, China became the latest country to suspend beef products from the US.

The European Union said it was keeping a close eye on the situation, but it has anyway banned most US beef for many years because of growth hormones in the meat.

Tissue samples from the suspected cow are already being studied in the UK, which suffered a devastating outbreak of BSE in the mid-1990s.

The results will be known in a few days' time.

So far, 143 cases of vCJD have been diagnosed in the UK, although the numbers of new cases are falling.

There is no established treatment for the illness, which causes massive brain damage and normally kills within months of being detected.

Attached Image(s)

ORIGINAL: ErEf

And if you see this movie of these kids that Mr.X posted you get an idea of how big the meat business is in the US.. big mass production. big mass money - big mass corruption

@Eref;
Corruption of the Regulatory Bodies

Corruption is a difficult word but in this context the meaning is clear.
Misrepresenting the facts to favour the multi-nationals or to protect fellow members or their associates to the detriment of the health of the people of the Nation is a serious failing which can only be described as corrupt.

There is ample evidence to show that at various times in recent history official statements have been made which have proven to be knowingly false. Such statements have been common with BSE, organophosphates, Gulf War activities and on numerous other vital issues.

Claims that the real truth was not known at the time simply do not stand close scrutiny and the perfect example is that of chronic OP poisoning upon which subject the official line is that little is known.
How can this be when it is recognised as an industrial injury in an Act which is admitted to have been on the statute books in the UK since 1965?

An interesting exercise is to examine the membership of the various Regulatory bodies and to look at their professional history and private interests. It is truly remarkable how many have direct links to the chemical companies upon whose products they must decide matters of safety.

Reassurances from these individuals mean little when we realise that one of their number actually accused those who warned of the dangers to human health posed by OP insecticides of causing increased environmental damage from the pyrethroid replacements.

It did not seem to occur to this "expert" that his statement was an admission that yet another chemical approved by his colleagues as "safe" was in fact a dangerous environmental toxin.
On the face of it there is an obvious need for individuals who have a thorough knowledge of the subject to sit on the regulatory panels but we must be certain that they do not simply "rubber-stamp" what their former or even current employers claim to be true.
There must be checks and balances.

What is of grave concern is that evidence opposing the views expressed by the regulators provided by outside sources is usually ignored.
The perfect example of this is the subject of GM contamination and cross-pollination for the size of the boundaries set to prevent this has become the subject for a debate which borders on farce.
How can they require any protective boundary whilst at the same time freely permitting the adulteration of seed with up to 1% contamination with a genetically modified variety?
Each GM seed will grow, produce pollen, and will be standing adjacent to the non-GM crop that was the farmer's preference. The latter plant will be pollinated by the former and the resultant seeds will be GM seeds.
The planned introduction of GM crops has then succeeded - by the back door - and with the full consent of the "independent" regulators who were charged with protecting our native species.

Again we must examine the links between regulator and company.

If we examine BSE and vCJD we will see that the transmission by vaccine and causation by pesticides were both dismissed as "unlikely" by the regulators and yet there is ample evidence to support both means of causation and spread of the disease.
In fact the officials themselves recognise a far higher risk of "cross-infection" by injection than by feed and yet much of the cattle testing for tuberculosis continues using common needles for entire herds.
Even at the peak of the BSE crisis drugs for human medicines were still sourced from cattle of unknown BSE status.
How can we know if the reason why these risks were dismissed is the result of direct links to the chemical companies who would be most damaged by such revelations?
Could it be that the regulators had inside knowledge of the real cause but hid the facts in order to protect those companies?
We have evidence to show that evidence of real risk has been ignored.

Recently the restrictions on import controls have been eased to comply with the concept of "Free Trade" whilst at the same time the UK has had her own exports banned because of the incidence of BSE and Swine Fever.
Swine Fever and BSE are found in many other countries which face no such restrictions and the UK still permits imports from those countries.
We must ask why the UK is not permitted to protect its own people and yet is penalised for its high animal welfare standards?

Britain has traditionally been free of rabies but once again she has now weakened the safety barriers to allow the freedom of movement of vaccinated animals. Once again she has lowered the barriers to serious disease after pressure from wealthy "pet lovers" who desire to take their animals with them on holidays and from neighbouring states where the disease is commonly found and spreading.

Strict import controls were placed on meat in order to prevent what was a highly prized UK livestock industry being destroyed by disease brought in from overseas. Now many farmers place the blame for the recent outbreak of Swine Fever firmly at the door of the regulators who allowed the situation to arise by lowering control standards.

Farmers were blamed for BSE by those who did not know. The truth was that whatever the cause the blame lies with the regulators.

Commercial considerations denied the farmers knowledge of feed ingredients.
Commercial considerations permitted the ending of solvent use in rendering plants.
Commercial considerations permitted the lowering of rendering temperatures.
Commercial considerations insisted on warblecides to aid the leather industry.
Commercial considerations permitted the addition of rendered meal into animal feed.
Commercial considerations advised farmers to use glyphosate on crops fed to man and animals.
Commercial considerations forced farmers to add insecticides to harvested grain or there was no sale.
Commercial interests declared that the UK needed GM crops, the trial sites and imported GM foods.
Commercial interests sourced the materials from dead cattle to make medicines for both man and beast.

All of these were recommendations from commercial interests which were approved by the regulators.

Farmers have been blamed for all these problems but they have been falsely accused.
Yes there are rogue farmers who misuse pesticides and they are unduly protected by the system but again the regulators are at fault.
The Regulations are there to protect us all but they are not properly enforced.


We must ask if this is the result of corrupt practices or if we are dealing here with gross incompetence.

Dude, Maby this suplement is very bad! But Who Care's? I dont give a fuck, Look Mike is Selling Prohormones to. Thats the fucking same story bro, And what about Vanadyl sulfate, that suff is making a diabetis patient of u. That cocksucker of ergogenics is a rebel. He alway's wanna write shit, this guy is picking information from 12 webside's and make his own story of it. This guy is realy fun, he even doesnt know were he's write about! And btw check this out.. http://www.ergogenics.org/secretagogue.html#han8|

@Oxy;

We are not discussing Willem Koerts integrity in this topic, but the cause and transmission of prion diseases to human beings, and what regularities are taken to prevent this, so please stick to the subject please..

ORIGINAL: Oxy

Dude, Maby this suplement is very bad! But Who Care's?

I do care.

Why do you think now you'll see all the signs on sigaret cases that it is deadly etc.. written all over it?? Because it is confirmed that it is deadly.

Just in this case it is confirmed that humans CAN get (nv)CJD via also pigs. And in the US they are trying to cover it up. So there is a chance you have a dose of this supp with prions in it, and you just don't know. Untill you start to tremblin and worse.

This is still ontopic, Look if u wanna beleive Stupit story's of ergogenics. I have found only 1 artikle about prion disease, On ergogenics ( who else...)!

If u known that this product is bad, then you only can tell everybody to not use this Supplement. What u are doing here is '' Asking Mike (1fast400) To bann this product out of his Asortiment'' Look, mike isnt stupit, he's makeing money like this way.

@Oxy;

Sorry for saying but I really believe you are not contributing to the whole discussion, whatsoever. Before you continue humiliating yourself in public I give you my advice to return not earlier than you have learned to express yourself in decent English. If you have a personal rant against Willem Koert, I do believe you have to send him a personal email directly, rather than calling him names behind his back. Although Willem obviously knows the discussion about prion diseases is taking place on this forum, he is not actively participating and could not defend himself here. Let me make one thing clear; do not "Dude" and "Bro" me anymore. First of all I could not remember we have ever met before and secondly I have only one brother and that is certainly not you! I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce. Next time I'll try being nicer if you'll try being smarter.

And about Willem Koert; I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him.

Go Raymond!! Go Raymond!!!

WHAM! in your face Oxy![sm=slach.gif]

My english isn't very good either Don't forget this is a dutch forum, so you can't expect from people to write perfect english. On some points i do agree with Oxy, i thought the original discussion was one about you and mike about a supplement he sold. We are already way offtopic. Right now the discussion is more about safety in general. You made you're point about the supplement. We all see that clearly, but you can go on the subject for years, but do you really think it makes a difference? Mike will sell it because he has shit on you, he makes money with it and i don't think he is going to change that. Second, what are you trying to point out at the moment?? i lost it completely.. We are one of the safest countries in the world, i think the safest country. Leave it to people who are doing this daily en who are making their living from it. Fact is that we only know 1% about the subject so how can we conclude certain things?? we can't, so we shouldn't do it.. you made your point.